This week in Bitcoin- 11-8-2019(Pt. 2)- China, Libra, Defi, Store of value vs MOE, Lightning Network

This week in Bitcoin- 11-8-2019(Pt. 2)- China, Libra, Defi, Store of value vs MOE, Lightning Network

Hello everyone this is adam meister the
bitcoinmeister the disrupt meister welcome to this week in bitcoin today is
November the 8th 2019 strong hand bitcoin is the next bitcoin in motion
because apex predator one bitcoin equals one Bitcoin I’m offended by selling
conviction and we got two guys here that are got a lot of conviction they aren’t
unique beasts they are relentless oh yeah David Bennett is coming in he’s got
his podcast Bitcoin and and then we got Leo Reese he’s coming in from freaking
Hong okay now I want to move to the mainland of China because there’s been a
lot of news out of there lately a lot of Bitcoin related news they or are they
going to create their own cryptocurrency news they’re their own cryptocurrency
their own centralized coin they’re gonna have their own Libre who knows what’s
going on over there Leo what’s going on so first I was surprised over the last
half year maybe last year how much attention Libra has been getting from US
regulators from US media um about what they’re building and yeah that attention
was partly negative right that attention was a push back of like you’re
challenging our authority or challenging the the status of the US dollar um but
this um only about like an a Jew and suddenly this yeah this concerns were
like slopping over to Asia and for me a like somebody who’s rude to meaning the
Bitcoin community and this has been part of a much longer discussion of like the
viability of stable coins and I considered this discussion to be more or
less like over I who’ve had all these arguments we’ve debated all the pros and
cons but suddenly all of Asia was discussing
and not just the the opportunities but mainly the threats of something that he
brought and I feel like this is a discussion that’s been pushed on an
especially China like if you look at the People’s Bank of China it’s been mainly
them reacting to journalists to businesses to like the local like
finance community like pushing them away what are we going to do about me bro and
um that’s not so much rooted in the fear of like if facebook had announced
they’re going to this to going to start a payment system a global payment system
nobody would have paid attention but if they say we’re gonna start a global
blockchain payment system similar to Bitcoin then suddenly everybody
everybody pays attention like there’s this mere connection of first of all
nobody of course understands like really what the technology is and what these
valuations mean but what people do understand that bitcoin is not very
wildly use and yet it is potentially harmful because it has these properties
and then on the other side you have something like Facebook which doesn’t
have a currency but everybody uses and so in people’s minds they combine those
things and they see a Bitcoin that everybody uses it already see like
exactly the properties of Libre they see a Bitcoin that everybody uses and they
fear that this now makes their capital controls irrelevant and it makes their
local currency redundant and it makes their monetary policy irrelevant and
they get these constant questions that he has to do something about it even
though some of these people in these organizations might not believe in it or
might not think it’s viable might some of these people might actually
understand what’s going on and think this is complete nonsense and that’s
like too much hype about nothing but they have to now respond and they come
up with this idea of like a central bank issue perfect pricey and which to a
cryptocurrency enthusiastic doesn’t sound like much
and to an economist sounds like an interesting attempt to remove the banks
from the equation and remove the like remove the like the money creation
inside of banks write the marginal marginal marginal reserve from from
banks and and but nobody really knows like the details so all that people seem
to be concerned about is creating either some kind of alternative or some kind of
legal framework that makes Libre irrelevant and satisfying their local
press or their local finance industry that everything is gonna remain the same
just represent better all right so we where is with what David I want to hear
your take on before moved to China real quick what’s your take on the Libre then
my stance has it changed all that much I think we’re seeing reactionary events
here in the United States and that’s from things like Facebook coming up with
the idea of Libre we know it’s not probably gonna be a blockchain I read
something that was laughable yesterday that said oh it was like their CTO or
what other CEOs said something like or the CEO I think says something around
the the term of we are never going to link your financial transactions with
your Facebook identity and I’m like no that’s not true
that that will happen and it with all the stuff that’s coming out it seems
like even over here in the United States we’re grasping or not we’re I know what
I’m clinging on to but everything else seems to be clinging on to this grasping
at straws and everybody’s changing the game of straws there’s there’s nowhere
that they can actually step anymore that has a solid foundation that they’re
familiar with now we can walk across these moving stones in the air and we’re
completely fine because at this point we used to massive shifts in ideas and what
bitcoin is or what Bitcoin was or now we’re into second layer stuff with
lightning we’re used to navigating this stuff but people that are have the
regulatory mindset are locked in prisons and because of that they’re faltering
will be pretty much epic in my opinion I don’t think that the Chinese stable coin
is going to be blockchain based I don’t think Libra is gonna be blockchain based
I think there are going to be all of this is going to be centralized and now
we have this story that Zuko I was talking to you about it last night the
Zuko tweeted out from Fortune magazine this was Bryan Brooks riding on November
the 4th the time has come for a tokenized version of the dollar and then
we saw a story I saw reported on a story yesterday of coin desk I think and it
was talking about how the EU wanted their own and then that the EU came or
some spokesperson from the EU came back and said no that that story was wrong we
just want to regulate well I look at all this together and I just see a whole
bunch of people running around and they don’t really know what’s going on and
because of that I you know probably naive but it seems to me like it’s
pretty it’s easy targets well I say let them all run around and not know what’s
going on if they want to create their own centralized crypto currencies be my
guests quickly the countries themselves are a
little worried about a corporation printing its own money there they’re
clearly not fans of that whether it be China or whether it be the United States
I am I’m a fan of it I’m gonna do it I’m just gonna stick with it not gonna stick
with the decentralized one now so we but part of the deal that’s coming out of
China is clearly uh they want to be Facebook to the punch but perhaps with
their own stable coin but more so leo they want to use cryptocurrency they
want to use blockchain to monitor the people right I mean this
this is part of a larger central central planning type of endeavor I would soon
yeah I was very much surprised when she Jing ping the chairman of the Communist
Party of China was making big coin or rather blockchain plus as we called it
like a central policy objective and for the next few years um I didn’t expect
this because I because very few of Technology especially technology topics
to discuss are being discussed at the top and the Internet is one of these
examples and artificial intelligence is one of these examples and for blockchain
suddenly to like achieve this this level of recognition to be up there with the
Internet and artificial intelligence and it’s very very symbolic and it is going
to change a lot of how mind operations of how could the currency exchange about
tokens are going to be perceived in the next years I do think it can be seen as
a bit of a turnaround from the 2017 I see Obon and from the 2018 like
harassment of mining operations and that a lot of this stuff even though the
government doesn’t specifically say it is now going to be a lot more acceptable
um but I don’t know exactly whether this is like very well thought through and
what this is exactly trying to achieve and because I am convinced that the
party is only after control they want to control their economy they want to
control their society and they’re terrified of their own people
like they’re much more terrified of their own people than they are of like
the largest military powers in you are like they do not spend that much effort
of defending themselves against potential military aggressors
as they are defending themselves against like potential local fringe groups
turning into political organizations and so when they say blockchain they must
mean control and they must mean I’m surveillance and it is
easy to imagine how they can come up with a new system that kind of like yeah
puts the puts these two together for example if we think about how the
current financial system of China works and you have the Central Bank of China
you have the commercial bank surrounded which are like predominantly state-owned
and the state all means some of them are centrally state federal state owns as we
call in the US or some of them are provincially state-owned and then you
have the tech companies and the tech companies like Tenten and nany Bob or of
course they’re all on board with like Communist Party agenda and none of them
would ever like conflict with their vision but they are still different
power centers and they still hold different information and we’ve had
instances for example where Jenson and Alibaba have refused to give up loan
information to the government saying that this is like their proprietary data
and they’re not going to share that with the government so we have seen a bit of
that yeah a bit of that defiance and creating some kind of national
blockchain care of currency would allow the central bank to take to take on the
entire population and allow them to on board as individual account holders and
then you no longer gonna hold your money with Alibaba and your accounts on Alipay
are no longer gonna be like ali page ugly but rather every payment you’ll do
in is going to be between different accounts on your central bank balance
sheets and all that Ani Baba and Tenzin and the local banks are gonna do is
provide you out similar to like Bitcoin wallets that are only like a user
interface to a commonly shared payment system to which the government has
perfect insight they know at all times what does being bought who holds what
money who transfers money to who who sends a bribe to rule and there’s not
really any way of escaping right because the second if this becomes possible and
the desire to abolish cash is going to be yeah
very high and and they are going to find technical solutions to allow even people
in in rural places and even people who don’t have like a large income and even
tourists who just always use this digital cash no physical cash anymore oh
so this is hey this is the future and this is a this is the direction they’re
going in is so many men so many people were very pleased you know all China
likes Bitcoin again there’s no that’s not what they mean like the fact that
Bitcoin rallied so much that day and was probably as much a surprise to them as
it was to us oh very good very interesting point about that like button
yeah they were deep you said you don’t think they exactly know what they’re
doing do you think there are officials in the Communist Party that are stocking
up a Bitcoin yeah I think a lot of them would have some kind of Bitcoin exposure
um that’s not necessarily a sign that Bitcoin helps the Communist Party retain
its power and more of a sign that a lot of its members are looking for exits as
well and a lot of its members do not believe in that system either
and these people are holding gold in their personal vault as much as they’re
holding foreign real estate in like some Dakota LLC’s you know and these people
are not ideologically as allied Communist Party as we think like a lot
of them are in it for the quick buck and they’re looking for ways to carry out
their loot and Bitcoin is very much enough yeah it’s it’s insurance just in
case everything goes wrong and well it goes back to your point that the
government fears the people more than they feel fear an invading army so I
mean they all have it in their back of their heads that it could fall apart at
any moment yes everybody everybody just knows that like the the other faction
might turn against them any second and that’s why they stash their wealth
abroad that’s why they have foot out of the door that’s why they
make sure that their offspring is educated abroad and has green cards and
eventually in in case something goes wrong has the ability to like pull them
in very very good point they know what’s going on all right so let’s uh let’s
move on I’m gonna ask you about you just came from a Hong Kong meet up we’ll get
to that in a second I wanted to ask a danger question now that about defy dude
I on Twitter now it seems like they’re all these people defy etherium it’s it’s
a it’s the biggest thing and I’m not I’m not a fan of it but I am NOT blind to
this there’s a lot of money flowing there really is a lot of money a lot of
companies the toss of money it says gee chief any thoughts on this date do you
hear about this theory yeah I see Oh 2.0 yeah I mean I you know I haven’t looked
and I should probably look deeper into defy but honestly Adam i I can’t muster
the energy because I’ve I haven’t been here since the beginning I’ve been here
about I don’t know half the lifetime of Bitcoin maybe getting closer I guess and
I’ve seen this this exact type of sentiment so many
times and I’ve seen it catch on fire so fast so many times that I’m kind of Numb
so when the whole defy conversation started you know coming out I’m looking
at a Forbes article right now that was written back in April of this year why
everyone in crypto is talking about defy I’m like I don’t care because why was
everybody talking about altcoins because they thought they were gonna get smoked
and rich and then they got rekt why was everybody talking about how she is same
deal I see this as I don’t see this is very much different so that’s why I just
I I try Adam I try to care about some things but I just
some things I just can’t I know I understand where you’re coming from I
think there’s gonna be a lot I think calling an ICO 2.0 is probably a good
call right there they’re gonna be a lot of people that are blindly piling into
it now there might be some good innovation that comes out of it I think
with the icy OS there was even some I think one day that we shouldn’t rely on
stock markets that any company should be able to offer stock that way but it
turned into a disaster but it brought a lot of money into the space I see I see
a similar thing happening well in it there was a you know there was a change
of cinnamon I think it’s Robin Hood now that either has already launched her as
planning to launch the ability for your average Joe to buy 1/5 of one share of
stock of I don’t know Jenna Ford or you know like a General Electric or
something like that not that I would want any of those but you know if if
that’s all it did was to allow people to be able to throw a hundred bucks at a
stock whereas before if the stock cost more than a hundred bucks you ain’t yeah
you’re not touching it then I’m not as bad with that except for the fact that
I’m not a fan of the stock market casino either I mean I got like lyft and uber
and when uber was when they first hit the stock market did their IPO and they
were hurt first valuated and over a billion dollars and it was multiple
billions of dollars my question was for what because most of the time when
you’re looking at a valuation of a company you got to look at it from how
much can I get for all the staplers on the desk when I liquefy this at auction
they don’t they don’t own the cars they don’t own the they don’t own the pension
funds of the people driving cars for them they probably rent server space if
I were to liquefy uber today I might get a hundred thousand two hundred thousand
dollars on office furniture I might be you know stuff like that so I’m really
wary of the valuations in the stock market across the board so I’m not
saying that the stock market is gonna go down I mean I’m just saying that that’s
not my cup of tea so Alone’s the the whole dphi thing leading to
to loans because that’s sort of like the the first use case the the second use
cases will be will be different but the first use case it it concerns me because
and god I hate to use the term unsophisticated investor or
unsophisticated financial entity in the world but it concerns me that people
will rush out and get loans against Bitcoin or God you know or ether or
whatever whatever thing is gonna come down the pipe and get themselves into
into real trouble because I don’t like regulation but I also don’t like goons
showing up at my door because you know I’ve got they over leveraged themselves
so they’re mad because my Bitcoin on a price price fall doesn’t cover the loan
that I took out six months earlier to me the whole thing just seems like it’s a
potential for a huge mess which is if if people want to do that that’s fine let
people do whatever they want to do but it just gives me the willies that’s all
I’m saying I know it people are going to do they’re
already wanting to do these loans and letting other people control their
private keys which is just a tremendous mistake and we’re going to talk about
proof of keys in a second Jen yeah Leo have so you just came from a meet-up
there in in Hong Kong it was a Bitcoin meetup but no people talking about defy
they’re also ever what are they talking about to meet up today I’d say the main
topic was the Hong Kong Securities and Futures Commission regulating
cryptocurrency exchanges but defy is very much topic also an hour an hour
like chat rooms and our meetups and our gatherings and our events and it’s also
a contentious topic like people very much see it as a pyramid scheme where
the Ponzi scheme and I personally see it more as like a way for aetherium holders
to leverage themselves right like people have ether and they put that in to defy
and and they somehow loan it out and they take these stable coins and they
buying so it’s a way for them to to go long to
double go along and that’s of course going to go horribly wrong when people
are gonna lose everything and people are going to be margin called in the most
nefarious of ways and but it’s not like culturally wise it’s not like too
different from what’s happening in deployment people are also very much
willing to gamble away their holdings through highly leveraged futures
exchanges um and yeah I think ePHI has made a little bit more resistance to
government influence but if there’s one thing that we learned this week from
like Hong Kong Securities and Futures Commission say people don’t seem to have
the ability to regulate against futures exchanges either like we did here the
chief executive of the Hong Kong Securities and Futures Commission and
talked about Hong Kong crypto currency exchanges and he was very concerned that
some of the largest exchanges in the world are based here or pretending to
based here or pretending not to based here while having their team here and
offering like a variety of risky products that people seem to very much
like and but that he believes are yeah endangering the stability of some kind
of financial system and um he specifically put out a warning for
traders and investors in futures contracts um because he believes this is
like breaking the law and is going to get everybody wrecked so to say but the
reason probably in my opinion why he puts out a an advisory rather than going
out against these exchanges directly is that he doesn’t have a strong needed
case against them these are very much profitable businesses and they can
afford the lawyers and they have structured their businesses sometimes
from the very start in a way that makes it difficult for regulators to touch
them and regulators find a terrifying and regulators of begging governments
I’m on tinnitus legislate against that and to amend in Hong Kong it’s called
the Securities and Futures ordinance and so there are many laws that restrict
these kind of trading but and the government is busy with other things
right we’ve discussed it at the beginning of the show like the
government has absolutely no political capital to legislate against something
that the majority of the population does not give a crap about now so why risk
like alienating even more allies and when when when you can like safely
ignore it right yeah you put it in you definitely put it in the perspective
there there’s there’s bigger things to worry about over there now so with the
major takeaways I guess from the announcements in Hong Kong dealing with
regulation or exchanges or whatever is that the life will go on as normal for
for Bitcoin holders there and such there’s there’s not going to be the big
dick I mean the one income holder is very much unaffected if you’re owning
Bitcoin in Hong Kong if you’re trading Bitcoin if you’re selling and buying the
coin it’s an OTC trader like absolutely unaffected if you’re trading tokens that
are similar to security it’s like I SEOs or stos or if you’re trading futures or
derivatives and then as a as an investor yeah I mean I can only tell you the same
thing right like you’re gonna get wrecked eventually but as a legal
adviser there’s not that much like to to worry about other than legal protection
whatsoever and as the operator of these exchanges and it is I think it is worth
pointing out that Hong Kong is not a safe space and that I have seen a couple
of entrepreneurs coming here thinking oh but you have all these like global
players being based calm obviously this is an amazing place that’s not always
the case that sometimes has different reasons why they hear that sometimes
just accidental or has like historical reasons but it’s not necessarily that
Hong Kong is going to like shelter you and provide you with
official and regulatory environment at Europe at the gathering today the meetup
or at recent ones do people talk more about Bitcoin being a store of value
more so than they used to as a potential escape route I think the political
turmoil in Hong Kong has very much demonstrated to us that Hong Kong is not
immune from chaos and Hong Kong is not immune from like bank failure and that
the system is very much at risk so people are actually talking less about
that right and people are talking about Bitcoin being a store of value when it
comes to the hypothetical hypothetical situation of your local government
failing of your local bank going bankrupt when your local bankrupt your
local bank becoming bankrupt suddenly becomes like a a widely accepted
possibility and people just recognize bitcoins ability the storing value in
that case and no longer debated so much and so what people are have been
debating a bit today and what we have been discussing a lot over the last few
weeks and how much can Bitcoin and really become a global currency and as
opposed to just being a global like store value and and in my opinion
becoming a global currency is almost like a prerequisite and to being a store
value like I do think the causality runs I do think that being a store value is
like a prerequisite to being a global payment system of being a global payment
system is kind of this recursive prerequisite to this being a coming a
long term store about so there’s lots of people who disagree with me right lots
of people who believe that Bitcoin can survive purely as a store of value can
become like a digital gold and it doesn’t really have to achieve being a
payment system but I believe that it kind of goes like this right you first
need a currency that has the abilities or value and people start to store value
in it I’m store valuing it but the store value still competes with a lot of other
possible store values some of which are completely ridiculous right some which
might be some of which might be artwork or even even like even things like a
metal right or aluminum right what people just say like whatever whatever
holds like purchasing value I’m gonna buy it and for Bitcoin tend to actually
succeed for Bitcoin then really yeah kind of eat up that massive chunk of
capital and it needs to have like some natural demand in the form of payments
that people want to take it as a foam paint where people might accept when
people might want to store their capital in in a couple of tons of steel bars or
in real estate or in in the form of in the form of a business and they might
not accept that as payment and but if Bitcoin people accept Bitcoin its
payment on a large on a large scale and then this system has the ability to yeah
girl like hundred times larger than it would as a store value and that really
make and that’s what recursively makes it possible to store value in it that
there is a natural demand for people to take – do you see it getting closer to
being a payment system anyone working on innovation over there so two of my three
beers that I pay for today we’re painted lightening not that I drank all of these
figures but I did pay for all three of them and both of the lightening payments
work instantly and I do think that’s a pretty pretty solid a pretty solid step
to making making this work because if we want to put all our payments on chain
we’re not going to be able to do that for
a hundred million people of planet Earth but with lightning we can and for maybe
then from a hundred million people going to a billion people or going to ten
billion people we’re gonna need some additional ideas and but I’m also
confident that we’re gonna be able to come up with that and even if we can’t
creating a global payment system for 100 million people
it’s an extraordinary achievement David your thoughts on this payment system you
know to bring big general themes here of Bitcoin we got into yeah I don’t I don’t
disagree with Leo one of the things that I think about because about my
background is in biological sciences I can’t help but to look at this entire
situation as an organism bitcoins place as an organ inside of the world which is
the general organism here and when I look at when people when people say
bitcoins gonna replace the banks my first response used to be hell yeah and
now it’s like no whoa it will be parallel it will be like the lymphatic
system of the human being and then they’re like there it’ll be a second
circulatory system and then if one has trouble then the other one kind of takes
up slack but having a parallel system also kind of in both the systems kind of
inform each other that you kind of need to be on better behavior I think Bitcoin
will make banks behave better not now later I don’t know if I’ll still be
alive because the ingrained you know the the the really garbage things that
especially central banks I don’t have a problem with my neighborhood bank I have
a problem with central banks to me there is actually a difference between the guy
that gives you the home loan and the central bank that made the backing of
that home loan ridiculously stupid so the guy down the streets trying to help
he just happens to be giving me an instrument that may get me in trouble
and I don’t blame him for that I blame the people for designing the instrument
so as a parallel system Bitcoin and well I’m just gonna say Bitcoin I
think it will be able to take a lot of volume especially with lightning I
emptied my tip and my tip and dot media account into bottle pay just because I
was playing with it I made 15 transactions of 10,000 SATs of piece
within I don’t know 3 or 4 minutes of each other every single one of them was
instant none of them failed there was no routing failures whatsoever
I look at lightning I look at get paid I look at or get pay I like it fold I look
at like all these different systems Oh God who all these different things where
the Lightning Network I just saw the other yesterday I have it on the show
tomorrow Spanx calm Sphinx is a chat app that is that has payments built in and
it uses predominantly or uses only the Lightning Network to make those payments
in the chat app it’s the whole the spread of lightning is like wildfire man
and I I think on chain on Shane’s settlement would be good if you’re
buying a house buying a beer or 3 no I don’t want to settle on chain for that I
don’t need that I and I don’t feel bad saying that either it’s a beer or a cup
of coffee I I don’t like a steak sandwich you know if I want to buy a
side of beef to feed my family meat for like a year I might consider on Shane
payment for that because you know you’re gonna be pumping 1,600 bucks or 800
bucks depending on where you’re at or what kind of beef or buying well right
now without at all atomic multipath payments like news doctor to be able to
handle that but when we get a MP the atomic multipath payments we might be
looking at being able to transact on lightning at tens of thousands of
dollars at a time we just don’t know yet and and that’s my huge caution everybody
is stop looking at what’s going on right now and engaging the future against the
tech that you see now or the failures of tech that you see now we don’t know
what’s coming nobody saw lightning on the horizon seven years ago and now look
what else is coming I like that attitude pound that like
button people you know no one could have predicted that seven years ago you’re
absolutely right and that’s what I mean all sorts of solutions all sorts of
creative minds working innovate that innovation that’s going on we will see I
am looking forward to the 2020s yeah the Golden Age here now I want to pivot
to something that’s going to take place on January 3rd 2020 actually proof of
keys tres mayor is talking about it again he
promoted it last year everybody get their Bitcoin off of exchanges or third
parties on this all by that day see what happens
see if any exchange who really has the Bitcoin that they say they do now one
little twist that he added theoretically and we came true when she treat me we
should treat me and I just want to hear your take if someone someone out there
creates an airdrop a proof of clearing Keys airdrop coin that will really
encourage people not to have their coins anywhere else but under their control on
those days on that day by January the third so they will receive this airdrop
did you did you have any opinion on that yeah I’m actually looking at traces
tweet let me just read it for your for your audience here this was out of on
November the fourth not really a fan of all coins but I do think a proof of
Keyes coin could be fun especially if it’s wallet had atomic swaps for Bitcoin
built-in would be best if it were an annual airdrop with a snapshot on each
January the fourth then there would be cumulative economic effect thoughts and
then it’s a poll I voted a horrible idea and again allergic reaction to any kind
of what I want to say that the full world s coronary I love trace though I mean it’s not like
I’m stink it’s a horrible idea I it’s just it’s for me it’s a reaction of
God not one more coin you know like the as if we weren’t in the weeds enough as
it is and I think a lot of people were taken aback the trace because especially
because of his history and especially because of his staunch to his his
standpoint that being staunch on Bitcoin really mess people up now after looking
at it a little bit more I still think that a coin being involved in this is a
bad idea however the concept of being able to take a snapshot on January the
4th and somehow or another be able to I don’t know give ekiden I mean I’m
thinking why can’t we do this with I I don’t know like I said for for a coin to
work and have any kind of economic value or any kind of reason why we would want
to do this it would have to have economic value which means right back
into ICO land and I don’t like being an IC o—- land because it’s almost
impossible now that we’ve been in it for years it’s almost impossible to get out
of it it feels like a tar pit and you know what I’m trying to pull my feet out
of it I I’m too lazy to even sell the light coin that I’ve got chilling out on
a hardware wall because again I so don’t care anymore
I used to but it’s it’s just become evident anyway I love the concept of
proof of keys I think it’s a great idea i i’ve never engaged in proof of keys
because i don’t keep my bitcoin on anything but in my with my private keys
i am tempted although i’m gonna take that back because I do have some bottle
pay stuff you know I might because I can’t settle on shit or I’m not gonna
settle on chain with that because you know it might cost too much and it’s not
that many SAS I may might make a gesture to proof if key is simply by moving all
this ass off a bottle pay into a some other lightning app just as a gesture
yeah but the coin I not got to say it I’m not a fan I do like how you
part of your reaction is based on it isn’t exactly logic it’s just like
you’ve got a very bad distaste for all clients you just like you hear about Oh
another coin but at the same time you’re saying it would be great if somehow
people could be financially incentivized to do this hyper I like I like I like it
a lot because I know it’s not him creating his own coin he could just he
could pick some do that wants to do in all coins I mean people are gonna keep
creating all coins why not just pick one that does something kind of cool and say
hey you’re the one do this ever give it away for free every year this will make
more it will create a lot of publicity yeah what here’s what I do wish I wish
trace would really kind of like not buckle down but sit down and write this
up in a very fully fleshed as an idea instead of just a tweed that that
elicits reaction because a tweet you’re not gonna get much out of a tweet unless
you put up a tweet storm and if you’re gonna do that especially on something
like this you know a full-length medium post or something like that trace is a
wonderful writer you know he’s he’s very skilled at it and I would actually want
I would take the time to read that that would be the only quote-unquote white
paper that I would actually read just because a is coming out of trace and we
you know he’s he’s got a lot of traction for a long time in the space so it’s I I
can’t imagine him like sitting there going oh yes we’re good he’s got more
money he’s probably got more money than God right now so he doesn’t really need
needed to be this way so again not a fan but I would I would so read that paper
if he were to write that out and flesh it out completely I would read that
twice I give it to you that is an excellent point it did definitely tweet
is this gonna cause people to give you short little reaction just like it was a
short little tweet I think you could flesh this out beautiful I think hey
trace if you’re watching the flesh that baby out though
the tweet was a good way to introduce the idea but bring it to the next level
and I think it will be interesting Leo do your thoughts on that proof of
cheese I very much share a David sentiment for a proof of keys in the way
that Trey Myers imagines it to work it needs some kind of value right and I
don’t understand what gives this all to invalidate that was given to people
purely as a value of like holding their own Bitcoin and if it really has value
then I also see exchanges like kind of like starting to offer this as a service
right it’s kind of like kind of crediting people and their their airdrop
coin in the same way as exchanges gave people access to their Bitcoin cash or
their to the Bitcoin of speed and then again the entire thing doesn’t work if
people are then relying or their exchanges and saying like oh I don’t
want to have to deal with like making sure that my Bitcoin are withdrawn to my
own wallet and at the right time but like I’m just gonna use the exchange
that promises to do that for me right and so I don’t really see it either
working from the value side or working from the practical side and I think
people should like be very much reminded – yeah not trust or exchange like in
exchange just like a is like a little Forex office at the airport that you
approach and you’re not gonna leave your spot until you have gotten your change
back right and you’re not gonna just like show up at a and a Forex foods and
say here’s my US Dollars I’m gonna wait for my Korean Won and just like pick
them up whenever I trust you guys like you’re gonna get that cash right away
and I think that’s how we should be looking at the corn exchanges – um and
that I don’t really see a reason for why people put the Bitcoin in and um maybe
we just need to remind our friends and our family that these are not that
Bitcoin is very much going to be around in ten years but their Bitcoin exchange
might not be and they’re gonna be able to save a lot of hassle and money and by
withdrawing the Bitcoin like right now and I pause the show
login to a Bitcoin exchange withdrawing a coin and then continuing so do not
with it and that guy is Tracy’s main point to do exactly that to do to do
that is the whole point of the proof of kiss and I will say this the exchanges
that are lying about the Bitcoin that they say they have they won’t be able to
credit people there proof of key coin is they won’t be able to get it and that
will help call them out as being Liars and so I I don’t I don’t think it’ll be
as you said it kind of defeats the purpose because all these well there
will be legitimate exchanges that will offer that service to give the proof of
key coins for you know to do it for their clients but then some exchanges
will not be able to do it because they don’t actually have the big so it might
it might you know help prove the point that these guys don’t actually have okay
we’re getting here toward the end of the show here I want everybody to give their
conclusionary remarks anything that was left out any any news you want to say
we’ll start with David yeah I wanted to pick up on this idea that I got from
Novak had tweeted out something only see if I can’t find it again
yeah Rodolfo Novak of coin kite and did the ignitor of open dime and cold card
and stuff like that he had a tweet that was referencing another tweet he said
now this would make an awesome hardware wallet and what he’s referencing is this
handheld c64 or a Commodore Commodore HX 64 it’s a 3d rendering and as the thing
is it’s not real it’s a it’s somebody decided that they would take all the
visual elements of a Commodore 64 and turned it into his 3d model that had
cassettes like old tape cassettes that you would shove into it so that you
could play old 60 Commodore 64 games well no 1 Novak in his penchant for
older tech it doesn’t surprise me that he tweeted this out as to how this would
make an awesome hardware while it I kind of lot latched onto that and and
tweeted his tweet back out and says I may not it may not be the worst idea for
a group of developers to go full on building Bitcoin on really old tech in
conjunction with and it would have to be this way developers building on the very
latest tech looking forward into the future and like and I end up with radio
comes to mind and I’m like a huge fan of this thing with like Rodolfo does it
every once in a while but some other people have gotten into where they’re
transmitting transactions over ham radio and somehow or another it gets picked up
by receiver put on the mesh network and at the end funnel of the mesh
network is something that goes to the block stream satellite and when I look
at this I’m like oh my god this is but this is part of the whole deal of why I
look at this whole space as an organism it’s growing organically and it’s using
what it’s scavenging whatever material II can from the earth or in this case
the earth being our store of technology old present future that kind of thing
and I think that a steampunk Bitcoin would be the awesome way to go for some
people who are able to like radio transactions I like that idea because
it’s an ancillary system to like the general telecommunication systems
eventually you’re gonna have to get to a miner for an on chain thing but a tree
lightning Network transmission can be done I haven’t seen it done but it could
it’s it’s not impossible for it to be on radio and it you know like what I’m
saying here is that a steampunk Bitcoin thing would be really cool as a hedge
against the technologies and our present technology somehow being deprecated by
state actors actually I should mention all the things that we can’t think of
instead of trying to list the things that we gave so I wanted to bring that
up as my last night I like that old-school insurance policy there
bringing it bringing it down to old technology to insure against future
threats I like that all right yeah it’s a hardening yes indeed
we got a five minutes here Leo the floor is yours I very much want to have a
separate conversation sometime with David about like Bitcoin being an
organism this is also something that very much fascinates me
I think Bitcoin as an organism makes a lot more sense than like Bitcoin as a
network for us to be unable and like we’re not even that the people who
created Bitcoin right have any idea of how to shut it off like it’s something
that you kind of birth that you kind of like give life and then it runs away and
does its own thing and I feel a lot of the time when we interact with Bitcoin
it’s it’s more Bitcoin incentivizing us to do something that asks like really
then really us controlling Bitcoin for us to to run mining operations that’s
like Bitcoin telling us like hey like give me energy and I will give you value
in exchange that’s not so much us saying like I’m gonna turn on Bitcoin like by
like running these hashes and for even things like um freedom for things like
you ASF right and it’s kind of big going telling us like hey like fight for me
like um keep me together keep me keep me and keep me in one chain that’s I find
that very beautiful so yeah just just a few ideas very much mine continue that
conversation sometime all I have to say is one for Hong Kong
seed oi cop name and reclaim Hong Kong revolution of our times thank you for
for paying attention to what’s happening Hong Kong it is very much a fight that’s
not only relevant to Hong Kong relevant to the entire world and if we don’t
fight it now we’re gonna have to fight it in a thousand different places around
the world because the Chinese Communist Party’s not gonna stop at Hong Kong
where they are going to continue their expansionist plan
I wanted next Australia in the United States campuses around the world and
governments everywhere going it’s coming to you yeah yeah all right hey David you
gotta have him on your show man so speaking about David show it is linked
to below he’s got a great podcast we’ll link to the Hong Kong people linked on
everybody’s permanent links will be linked to below remember this week in
Bitcoin is every Friday here I do a new show on my channel every day Saturday is
the on Bitcoin every other day is the one Bitcoin show you know we got the
conviction a new show here every single day so thank you very much guest it’s
been a great one today I’m out of meister the bitcoinmeister the disrupt
meister remember to subscribe this channel like this video share this video
check out the links below of course pound that like button
shabbat shalom see you guys tomorrow bye bye

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